And the NL MVP is

So did I. I made a bet with one the teachers in my school. Still, congratulations to Jimmy Rollins. He definitely deserved it.

That is an absolutely asinine statement. It's one thing if you think Holliday had a better season, but how can you possibly think that Ramirez is a better player than Rollins?

More stolen bases, higher batting average, higher OPB, higher slugging, just as many homeruns. It's not an asinine statement, look at their numbers.

Defensively Rollins is better and the key category that Ramirez can't even hope to compete in is: LEADERSHIP. Rollins was at least as import to the Phillies comeback run to the playoffs as Holliday. If there was an award that should be split, it was this year's NL MVP.

You're right. Rollins had a 4.65 Leadership Index, whereas Ramirez only registered a 1.73. This number is calculated from the Derek Jeter Leadership and Clutchness Table, where a 10.0 is Jeter level. Nobody besides Jeter has ever registered above a 5. Rollins is pretty close to Scott Brosius level.

lol...thanks, Tmil! If you want to talk about defense, yes - Rollins definitely has a big edge over Ramirez. But, again, the thing I was arguing was that it's not asinine to say that Ramirez is the best shortstop in the division. I'm not saying that it's wrong to say Rollins is better, I'm just saying this is my opinion, and I've backed it with stats. Y'all haven't backed it with anything. Leadership? Are you kidding me with the intangibles crap?

I agree with you that Rollins and Ramirez are the two best shortstops in the NL. Reyes is a step behind until he can put a full season together. Rollins is better defensively and Ramirez is an offensive beast. I'd be happy to have either one on my team.

I have a hard time saying that in such a team sport. It helps A LOT when you've got Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Aaron Rowand, a pitching staff that doesn't totally blow, and a divisional opponent that folds like a cheap card table. If that's the metric they used to select the MVP, I'd be very disappointed, because they'd be giving it to a guy that willed his team to a very brief playoff appearance over a guy that willed his team into the World Series.

Howard was down in comparison to last year, and Utley was injured for important stretches of the season. Rowand was an important contributor, but the one constant was always Rollins. The Phillies were always a playoff contender, but their shortstop put them over the top and made them a division winner. This is a regular season award so anything Holliday did in getting the Rockies to the World Series should be discounted. However, he had an unbelievable regular season and if he would have won the award, it wouldn't have surprised me either.

yes we will because he didnt win big enough just kidding we wont

Especially if he doesn't show some hustle going to the podium to recieve the award!

I think a case could be made for Wright, considering he's about the only Met that didn't fold up and go home at the beginning of August.

Then you weren't looking. This race was between Holliday and Rollins. No one else had a chance.

I know, and I thought Holliday had it on lockdown.

No, I thought it'd be a Rockie (Holliday). I assumed their ridiculous late-season run would offset the voters' anti-Coors bias. Guess not.

Is it at all significant that Rollins' OPS on the road was also .859? Why is Holliday punished for having a phenomenal OPS just because his OPS at home is insane?

It is important because Rollins brings other things to the table besides his bat. Rollins plays above-average defense at a premium position and his 41 stolen bases. Holliday is purely a slugger, he plays average defense and is not a threat on the basepaths.

Holliday might not represent a threat on the basepaths, but he still scored 120 runs, in addition to the 137 that he knocked in. That's a ridiculous total. He accounted for 257 runs. That's 24 more than Rollins, and in four fewer games played. But I assume that also does not count for anything because he plays in a hitters park?

Runs scored are a product of other people, not an individual's creation. Other than HRs, a player can't score by themselves. The best they can do is put themselves into position to score. The same is true for RBI. A player has no control over whether or not somebody's on base, and Rollins would have fewer chances for RBIs, as the person hitting in front of him would be a pitcher most of the time.

It's not ONLY a product of other people. It's a big factor, but not the only one. There is a lot of skill that goes into baserunning. Getting the jump, judging ball angle and how far you can leave the bag, speed, etc.

It should be numbers, not number's.

<Kenrick Speak>number's</Kenrick Speak>