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A Double Standard for Fighting, But Why?

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by user Tyduffy

MLB recently punished Derrek Lee and Chris Young of the Padres for their role in a skirmish last saturday with suspension of 5 games each. Chris Young hit Lee with a pitch, and, after words were exchanged, both players attempted to throw punches and a bench clearing brawl ensued.

The story here is not the incident itself, but fighting in baseball in general, and the apparent double standard between an incident that occurs in Major League Baseball and the NBA. NBA fights, at least those in the last few years, are often covered as tragedies and a great a stain upon the league and the perceived thuggishness of its players. In contrast, fights in baseball are often viewed as a routine and often amusing spectacle, much in the same vein as manager theatrics when arguing a call. It is quite clear that there is a palpable double standard between the two, the question is why.

One of the explanations provided most often, by Michael Wilbon and others, is race. The NBA is perceived as a black league. When white players fight it is attributed to "boys being boys" and occurrences on the field of play, while when black players fight, it is often attributed to their nature and personalities and problems off the field. In Hockey, perceived as a white sport, fighting is a 5 min penalty and part of the attraction. In the NBA, it is horrifying and villified by the same fans. This certainly has validity when comparing those two sports, but does it work with baseball?

Baseball, for all its problems, has done one thing better than every other major American sport. Race is largely a non-factor. There are White-American players, Black-American players, Hispanic players, Black-Hispanic players, and Asian players. The diversity is so prevalent that becomes a non-issue. Players are identified by the jersey they wear rather than the color of the skin. If race were the only factor, than people would have been going apeshit over the Lee-Young fight as Lee is a black player and Young is a white. However, that was never brought into discussion, at least to our Odds and Sods research team.

Part of the explanation, has to do with the intricacies of the sport themselves. Baseball is a sport with an enormous, and arguably necessary, tradition of self-policing to maintain safety when potentially deadly projectiles are hurled in the direction of a batter. In that environment there is much more of an opportunity, for an incident to develop.

Also, in baseball an incident necessarily escalates. If there is an altercation on the basketball court, it is 5 vs. 5 and there should theoretically be enough people. If a pitcher gets into a fight with a batter, there is one batter against nine players for the other team. The batter's team will rush in to protect him, prompting the other team's dugout to run onto the field as well creating a melee. Despite the massive numbers of players on the field, these incidents generally do not devolve into anything dangerous.

There is also a different environment on the baseball field than on the basketball court. The baseball field, for the most part, is isolated from the crowd. It is possible for a fan to get involved in an on the field incident, but they have to hurdle a wall and run a long way. Basketball has a much more immediate fan presence. Fans literally are sitting on the court. There is a far greater chance of a fight to go into the stands and endanger the safety of fans in an NBA game, and, therefore, it is taken more seriously.

The NBA also lives in the shadow of the Malace at the Palace, where an on the court incident that wasn't even a fight devolved into frightening and dangerous chaos. Classic fights involving the old Pistons and Celtics teams in the 80s are shown in highlight reels, while after the Palace incident, there is a lot more scrutiny. The image of Kermit Washington's punch on Rudy T also hangs its ugly head over the NBA. In baseball's worst fights a pitcher's arm gets broken, in basketball's worst fights there are threats to peoples' lives.

Another possibility is that, in the most cited example of the Nuggets-Knicks fight, David Stern unintentionally provoked more controversy by handing down stiff punishments. It was a bad incident, but would it really have been replayed on a continuous loop for weeks afterward had Stern not tried to send a message and brought down the hammer on Carmelo with a 15 game suspension? His harsh punishment kept the story in the media for longer, and, consequently, may have blown up the incident out of proportion to what actually happened.

The fact is that we still live in a fundamentally racist society. Not that the entire white populace is consciously KKK sympathizers, but among all races there is a tendency toward forming pre-set judgements of someone because of the color of their skin. It is easy to point out race as a factor, because it is in virtually everything. It is certainly one of the primary influences on the NBA's perception in mainstream American culture.

However, merely employing race to explain the discrepancy between punishment and treatment by society is simplistic and not sufficient. It neglects inherent differences in both the history of the sport, and the way the sport is played, which should be given an equal voice in a more wholistic explanation.

Interested in more? Go here


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JuTMSY4Legend
892 days ago
Score 2+-
Nice article and very interesting argument...

I disagree with your thought that baseball is a mixed color sport...regardless of race participation in each sport, baseball is viewed as a white sport (in america) whereas basketball is a black sport...right or wrong, that's the perception in my estimation...

But, I'd like to think that fighting has less to do with color in both leagues. For one, you'll note, that in all sports (save hockey...more later) fighting is stopped, frowned upon, prevented right away...hockey is the only sport that allows this...why...have you ever tried to land a haymaker on ice skates...it ain't easy...

With that said, punishment and involvement in fighting in either league is simply based on what the commish and league offices think is right for the league...selig doesn't think its a big issue (it isn't) and so the punishments aren't huge (its also situational...ron artest deserved to be suspended for a long time) whereas stern thinks its a big problem in basketball (it really isn't)...

Although, what i do have a problem with is the punishment for lee and young...the cubs losing lee for 5 games will hurt more than the pads losing young for, essentially, 1 game...i know young's season is essentially smaller (less "starts"), but losing lee for 5 hurts more when the pads have 4 other pitchers...
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JamelAll-American
892 days ago
Score 0+-
Yup-- its cause they are black-- yup indeed-- whole league is run by guys who are in the KKK-- Big punishment for the black guy, slap on the butt for the white guy- shame shame
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
892 days ago
Score 0+-
You have to worry about black guys sucker punching you though, because they all smoke sherm.
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JuTMSY4Legend
892 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh and ty...did you upload the image first before putting it in, because I can't find it and that may be why it didn't appear...
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
892 days ago
Score 0+-
This might be the best post I've read at ArmchairGM. Well done. It is refreshing to read an honest opinion about a topic of relevance in today's sports climate.
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JamelAll-American
892 days ago
Score 0+-
Tyrone I think Jay Mariotti once wrote an excellent column* about this-- it followed the same logic but he believes that when a white guy fights he should be rewarded by a blow job but his truly, while when a black player fights he should be hung by his truly- did you read that column?
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JamelAll-American
892 days ago
Score 0+-
The facts are really this-- as you explained when white guys fight it's just boys being boys cause people feel safe they aren't going to pull out semi automatics after the game and blow everyone's freakin head off- White boys don't pack the same heat--
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
892 days ago
Score 0+-
But why are black guys messin up in the NFL called "Thugs" while the same sort o' behavior in MLB is just "Boys will be boys" ??? How come Pacman has to pack heat to go to a strip club, but A-Rod just puts a banana down his pants. (I know that Jones is black and A-Rod is hispanic, but they all look alike to me)
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JamelAll-American
892 days ago
Score 0+-
We pack heat cause we are afraid of crackas-- they are all gay and we think they are after our "banana"-
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
892 days ago
Score 0+-
SHERM is the worm. Crack is WACK. TOKO is a JOKE - O.
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JamelAll-American
892 days ago
Score 0+-
I hate you- I'm going home :(
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JamelAll-American
892 days ago
Score 0+-
Ooooo and I forgot about the black players home boys out side-- you all know we travel in packs-- don't mess with a black dude-- cause he's got about 500 of his buddies who are waiting to kick your ass-- that's also why they don't like us fighting
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
892 days ago
Score 0+-
The only NBA fight that was perceived as a huge tragedy was because players were duking it out with fans. As I recall the baseball incident that went into the stands a few years back wasn't taken lightly either.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
892 days ago
Score 0+-
what about the whitesox father and son team incident? they were white and poor, so they obviously brought in Meth and pills and stuff. How come if your white and poor and throw some punches you are immediatley a redneck or white trash? How come if you're black and you carry a gun you are a thug? We really need a new bloodsport. ROLLERBALL!
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Anonymous Fanatic #3
892 days ago
Score 0+-
Hey guys, this is my first post here. Thank you for the feedback. That is the first time I have been compared to Mariotti...and hopefully the last.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
891 days ago
Score 0+-
Interestingly enough, the top 2 fighters in the NHL are both Black. In fact, NHL "legend" Marty McSorley was given the longest suspension in hockey history for his assault on a Black player.

Baseball, like hockey, are self-policing sports. There is an unwritten honor code. Show up the opposing teams pitcher...next time you are up, the pitch is coming in high and tight. Hit the clean-up hitter with a fastball...next time you are up, be prepared to be eating dirt. Run a guy into the boards from behind...better skate with your head up for the rest of the games against that team.

The fact is that too much league involvement with interfere with the self-policing aspects of both sports. Basketball does not have the same thing. The rules of the sport simply don't allow it.
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TyduffyRed-Shirting
891 days ago
Score 0+-
I was speaking in terms of people's public perceptions, not the actual race of the individual players. Hockey is in general perceived as a white sport. Since hardly anyone actually watches it in the U.S. anymore (The Stanley Cup Finals gave NBC its lowest rating EVER in Primetime), the actually facts don't disprove that. I don't agree that all of the NHL fighting is self-policing. A hard hit into the boards sends a message, fine. But there is no reason for them to take off their gloves and pummel each other with startling regularity and not get punished for it. That doesn't occur at any other level of hockey. It is not inherent to the game.
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