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AL Cy Young Race: Too Close to Call

15
Vote

by Timothy Moreland(Bball3345)

With Jake Peavy pulling away from the field in the NL Cy Young race, the AL has no clear frontrunner. Here are a list of the top candidates:



  1. Kelvim Escobar - 172.0 IP 15-6 3.03 RA 136 Ks
  2. Erik Bedard - 182.0 IP 13-5 3.26 RA 221 Ks
  3. Johan Santana - 188.0 IP 14-10 3.35 RA 200 Ks
  4. Dan Haren - 185.3 IP 14-5 3.35 RA 157 Ks
  5. J.J. Putz - 60.0 IP 37 Saves 1.35 RA 66:12 K:BB

J.J. Putz has been the most dominant, valuable closer in the majors this season, but it would be hard to argue for a closer winning the Cy Young over the group of talent at the starting position. In a year with a weak SP candidate for Cy Young, Putz would make a fine selection. That year is not 2007.

In terms of Runs Allowed, Escobar deserves the Cy Young; however, this stat does not tell the whole story. Escobar pales in comparison with Bedard and Santana in terms of strikeouts. Kelvim and Danny Haren, with their low K rates, relied much more heavily on their defense to make plays. Therefore, their success can be less attributed to them than Santana's and Bedard's. This is not meant to take anything away from Escobar and Haren's wonderful performance, but it should be a factor in determining the best pitcher of the year.

Erik Bedard has actually been more dominant, in a strikeout sense ,than Santana this year, with 21 more Ks in 6 fewer innings. Unfortunately, Bedard's oblique has been bothersome for awhile, and it appears as if the problem will likely force some downtime. Missed time is not something Bedard can afford in this Cy Young race.

In conclusion, any of these five could potentially be the favorite at year's end, but Johan Santana has the best combination of low RA, health, and high K/9 at this point. Voters won't look favorably on his 10 losses, but this is the fault of Minnesota's offense, not Santana's doing. Overall, this should be a tremendous race to the finish between five legitimately outstanding pitchers.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
RedSox&PatsDivaJV Squad
819 days ago
Score 3+-
What about Beckett? 162.2 / 16-2 / 3.29 / 158Ks
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JuTMSY4Legend
819 days ago
Score 0+-
who? ; - )
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RedSox&PatsDivaJV Squad
819 days ago
Score 1+-
* Updated* 166.2 / 16-2 / 3.18 / 158Ks
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RedSox&PatsDivaJV Squad
819 days ago
Score 1+-
Funny JuT!!!
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RomiezzoLegend
819 days ago
Score 2+-
You're funny too RedSox&PatsDiva. lol. Those aren't his stats. Here are his real stats:

16-6, 3.29 ERA, 166 2/3 IP, 158 K's.

I'd say he's a candidate as well..
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JuTMSY4Legend
819 days ago
Score 1+-
I actually agree...i just hate the general smug and "holier than thou" attitude sox fans have now...

Beckett has not only been ace like, but he's been the leader of the staff since schill starting blowing (and he pitched a fine game yesterday)...

Plus his stats are ridiculous and his team is one of the best in the league...in large part because of him...only Putz, Santana and Escobar (remember when he was a closer!) are on winning teams...and really, i only see Escobar in the playoffs...and he's not even the ace of his staff...
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 5+-
Beckett has a slightly higher RA than I would like in the first crop, but he is an outside contender. I would put him and C.C. Sabathia (over 200 innings pitched) at the front of Tier 2.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 0+-
So Bedard with 3.26 ERA is in your first tier, but Beckett's 3.29 isn't?
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 1+-
Actually, Bedard has a 3.16 ERA, and a 3.26 RA. Beckett is 3.29 and 3.46, respectively. In addition, Bedard has been ridiculous with the strikeouts this year and has thrown about 20 more innings.
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RomiezzoLegend
818 days ago
Score 0+-
Other stats: Bedard has a 1.088 WHIP, and Beckett has a 1.164. Bedard is 13-5, while Beckett is 16-6. On top of that, Beckett has (on average) 6 runs to back him up with those wins, and Bedard only has 4.81. Bedard also has 221 strikeouts, the most by any MLBer right now, including guys like Jake Peavy, Johan Santana, etc. He currently has 21 more K's than any other MLB pitcher this year. (221-158 Bedard vs. Beckett)
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Yakob878MVP
817 days ago
Score 0+-
he should really be on this list
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RomiezzoLegend
819 days ago
Score 2+-
What about John Lackey?

16-8, 181 1/3 IP, 138 K's, 3.18 ERA.

Kelvim does have better stats than Lackey, but I'd still put him up for a candidate to win.
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JuTMSY4Legend
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Lackey is the ace of that staff...
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Lackey's ERA is only 3.18, but his RA is 3.77. He has to take at least partial credit for all those unearned runs. Plus, his K rate isn't all that good. I don't see him deserving to beat out any of the five guys above, and I already had one Angel.
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RedSox&PatsDivaJV Squad
819 days ago
Score 0+-
I had the ERA right on the 1st post Romi.. thanks for the correction.. JuT, I'm not a "smug, holier than thou" Red Sox fan...just looking at the numbers.. =)
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RomiezzoLegend
819 days ago
Score 1+-
I changed the losses too. He has 6, not 2. ;)
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RedSox&PatsDivaJV Squad
819 days ago
Score 1+-
jesus.. thank god it's friday!!! I think I need a Sams Thanks again Romi!!!
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RomiezzoLegend
818 days ago
Score 0+-
Not a problem. ;)
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 1+-
What about CC Sabathia and Fausto Carmona?
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
I mentioned Sabathia in my comment above. He has a lot of innings, but his RA is substantially higher than the other candidates. I'm not much of a believer in Carmona because his K rate is so low. He has had a great year, but that knocks him below the other candidates.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Sabathia leads the American League in Innings Pitched. He has a sick K/BB ratio of 5.68. He's 4th in strikeouts. If the Indians had been scoring runs for him over the last month he'd have 18 or 19 wins already. He's beaten Johan Santana head to head twice. His K/9 at 7.80 is better than Escobar's (7.12) and Haren's (7.62) and Lackey's (6.85), though not as good as Bedard's, Santana's or Putz's. Plus he has 3 complete games. It's only your insistence on using Runs Allowed as the key measure that keeps Sabathia in the "second tier". By most other objective statistics, I think you have to consider Sabathia in the first tier among Cy Young candidates.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 1+-
1. Sabathia leads the AL in IP: True, but he also leads in Games Started, so it isn't like his starts are substantially longer than other contenders.

2. Sick K/BB ratio of 5.68: True. 3. He's 4th in strikeouts: True, but he's 11th in K/9. 4. If Indians had been scoring runs for him he'd have 18 or 19 wins: Sabathia's Run Support is 5.67, which is higher than Santana (5.17), Bedard (4.60), and Haren (5.44). 5. He's beaten Santana head to head twice: So? That's a rather meaningless stat. It's not like a one-on-one game of basketball. There are too many variable to make that meaningful.

Sabathia's ERA is higher than the other candidates. Then, throw in all of his unearned runs, which he has to take partial credit for, and he has an RA of 3.72. That puts him in the 2nd tier.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 1+-
Sorry, dude. Nice job using other statistics only as a way to support the only statistic that you think counts - RA. There are other ways to measure a pitching performance, and your insistence on knocking them all down makes your categorization into "tiers" an interesting intellectual experience and a fascinating attempt at rationalization, but ultimately pretty worthless.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
I don't think RA is the only stat that counts, but it is definitely the most useful. What is a pitcher's role? To prevent runs from scoring. Sabathia hasn't done as good of a job at this when compared to Haren, Santana, Escobar, and Bedard.

I also think K/9 is the other most useful stat, because it shows pretty well how much of a pitcher's success was his own and how much was the defense. Sabathia has not done as well as Bedard or Santana in this respect, and he only marginally beats out the other candidates.

So, RA + K/9 = most of what you need to know about picking the Cy Young. Other stuff like head-to-head and "would have had 18 or 19 wins by now" aren't meaningful. Leading the league in innings and K/BB are useful, but not enough for Sabathia to overcome his other shortcomings.

In my opinion.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 0+-
K/9 is worthless if you also walk a lot of batters. K/BB should have at least equal weight as K/9.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 0+-
And, actually, Sabathia is averaging 7.0 innings per start. Haren - 6.6, Bedard - 6.5. Beckett - 6.7, Escobar - 6.88, Lackey 6.7. So, he's not leading in innings pitched because he's started 1 more game than the other guys, he's leading because he's been gettting deeper into ballgames. Does it make a difference if your starter gets through 7 innings? Youbetcha.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
K/9 isn't necessarily worthless if you walk a lot of batters. As well, I am using the K/9 stat with players who clearly have been successful. So, it is used to see just how dominant they have been. The K/BB stat is good, but it allows players like Joe Blanton, Josh Towers, and Paul Byrd to look better than they really are. Someone could pitch 150 innings, walk 10 guys all year, and strike out 50 for a 5:1 ratio, but I guarantee he probably got hit pretty hard.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 2+-
The difference between an average of 7.0 and 6.6, 6.5, 6.7, and 6.88 isn't that meaningful. Sabathia has gone 7+ innings 19 times. Santana has gone 7+ 17 times, in one less start. Since Santana generally allows fewer runs in those starts, I would say the edge goes to Santana.
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 0+-
So, to sum it up: Leading the league in innings pitched, going deeper into games than any of your top candidates, being top 5 in strikeouts, being top 10 in WHIP, winning 15 games, having a K/9 better than half of the top candidates and a K/BB better than all of them is not enough to put Sabathia into the top tier of Cy Young candidates?
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Not exactly a very objective summation there, but if that is how you interpreted what I said, then fine, that is why I think Sabathia is below the five candidates I mentioned above.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 2+-
How do these guys stand up to each other WHIP wise? WHIP is a very good stat for measuring a pitcher's effectiveness.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Santana, Bedard, Haren are 1,2,3 in the league in WHIP. Becket is 8 and Sabathia is 10.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 0+-
What are the actual WHIPs?
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 1+-
Actual WHIPS: Putz 0.68, Santana 0.95, Haren 1.11, Bedard 1.09, Beckett 1.16, Sabathia and Escobar 1.17, Lackey 1.27
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RomiezzoLegend
818 days ago
Score 0+-
Johan Santana has a 1.048 WHIP

Erik Bedard has a 1.088 WHIP

Dan Haren has a 1.106 WHIP

Josh Beckett has a 1.164 WHIP

Kelvim Escobar has a 1.169 WHIP

CC Sabathia has a 1.172 WHIP

Fausto Carmona has a 1.221 WHIP

John Lackey has a 1.268 WHIP

JJ Putz has a 0.683 WHIP, but he should have a lower WHIP since he's a closer.

WHIP, in my opinion, is one of, if not the, most important stat when looking at a pitcher. K's sometimes won't matter because he may not be a strikeout pitcher. W/L column? I think we all know that's overrated. ERA? You have to look at how many runs that were unearned as well.

So, WHIP, and K/BB ratio (maybe), and ERA as well as RA are the things I'd base it on.
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Falcon02520Legend
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Any thought on JJ Putz? He may not be my choice, but if the Cy Young is anything like the MVP, shouldn't it be given to the pitcher who most helps their team? And look at what JJ has done in Seattle. (Just another perspective to look at.)
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 2+-
Cy Young goes to best pitcher (at least it's meant to), not just a pitcher who helps their team win. But being on a playoff contending team helps. It's difficult to win it as a closer, though. And one could argue that Putz doesn't help his team win as much as the starter and relievers who put him in position to save the game, or the hitters who give him the lead to save it.
Permalink
Falcon02520Legend
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah I know. I was just offering some other perspective. My thoughts are that when the season is over, Santana will be the clear cut choice anyway.
Permalink
WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 1+-
Given that Joe Borowski leads the league in saves, should we consider him, too?
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
No, there are at least 35-40 relievers that have been as valuable, or more so, than Borowski. Saves are more or less meaningless as a stat.
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NejoshiDiv-I Stud
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Borowski's ERA is way too high to be considered. He has also blown way too many saves. Putz is the only reliever that should even be considered.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 0+-
This whole RA thing got me confused, why does RA matter more than say, ERA, which is more focused on the pitcher's individual performance?
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WoodsmeisterVarsity Captain
819 days ago
Score 0+-
Essentially, RA says that pitchers should bear responsibility for all runs allowed, regardless of how much their defense boots the ball.
Permalink
RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 1+-
I think ERA is a great stat for a starting pitcher, combined with looking at their innings pitched, their strikeouts, their walks, and their WHIP. ERA is a very flawed stat, but this RA seems more flawed. If a pitcher were playing in front of the 1999 Mets, they're going to have a defensive leg up against a pitcher with the Devil Rays behind them.
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Falcon02520Legend
819 days ago
Score 1+-
ERA and WHIP should be the two deciding factors for how good a starting pitcher is doing. Unfortunatly it doesn't happen. (ex. Roger Clemens a few years back in Houston)
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score 0+-
The difference between ERA and RA is just whether or not unearned runs are counted. Neither way is perfect, but RA seems closer to the real skill level of a pitcher. Compare these two scenarios.

1. Imagine if the bases are empty and there are two outs. The batter then reaches on an error. Since this would have been the third out, anything after this doesn't count toward a pitcher's ERA. So, if the next nine batters all hit home runs, the pitcher's ERA for the inning is 0.00.

2. Now, say the third batter of that inning grounds out. Then, the next inning rolls around and the pitcher gives up nine consecutive HRs. His ERA for the inning is 81.00. The only difference in the two scenarios is that one fielding error, but this accounts for a 9 run difference between ERA and RA.

This is an extreme scenario, but it highlights my thinking behind valuing RA above ERA. Also, keep in mind that errors are just the official scorers judgment call.
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RawbeezeitzMajor Leaguer
819 days ago
Score 0+-
How about if a pitcher gives up an infield single with 2 outs, then is pulled, and the next guy walks three straight batters. The run is charged to the original pitcher.

You can come up with a million scenarios that demonstrate the flaws in statistics. But in the long run, I think the statistic of ERA is good for SPs because it measures the runs a starter allows on his own, not aided by defensive miscues. Of course, when a pitcher gets an error and that error leads to a run, it's somehow an unearned run, even though it was the pitcher's error.

There's problems with just using stats to determine the best at something. Sometimes you just have to watch the guys and make a judgement call on your own.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
819 days ago
Score -1+-
The thing is, ERA doesn't get rid of the defensive miscues. What if Pitcher A pitches on a team with a SLOW defense. The defenders are never quick enough to get to the ball; thus, there is no error. All of his runs are earned.

On the other hand, Pitcher B pitches with a FAST defense. His defenders ALWAYS get to the ball, but they sometimes make throwing errors. Pitcher B will have a lower ERA than RA.

What if these are the stats for...

Pitcher A: 3.75 ERA / 3.75 RA

Pitcher B: 3.75 ERA / 4.00 RA

If you use ERA, these two look equal, but we know Pitcher A had the worse defense, while Pitcher B was helped out by his defense. Using RA, you can see how Pitcher A was actually the better pitcher.

So, I wouldn't say ERA gets rid of "defensive miscues."
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Falcon02520Legend
818 days ago
Score 0+-
If they make the out, then they are out of the inning. ERA is better, because if they are out of the inning, the pitcher can't give up 9 or any number of runs.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
818 days ago
Score 0+-
What? I don't understand what that means. The reason the pitcher didn't get out of the inning was the defense's fault, but ERA doesn't credit the pitcher for the NINE HOME RUNS he gave up. Just because the defense made one misplay, the pitcher shouldn't get a free pass on the next nine batters (in that scenario). That is why RA is a better indicator of the pitcher's true performance.
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KelsdadAll-Star
818 days ago
Score -1+-
Its Beckett. And it shouldnt be close.
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Tyrone BriggsHall of Famer
818 days ago
Score 0+-
Its definitely not Mussina.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
818 days ago
Score 0+-
Thanks Tyrone.
Permalink | Reply
False ProphetAll-Star
818 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm hesitant on Santana because he's giving up a TON of Home runs, which has to count against him. And he has 10 losses. Most of that isn't his fault, but it will be held against him
Permalink | Reply
Yakob878MVP
818 days ago
Score 2+-
Nice job here. it is a really close race for the al cy young this year. If their is one thing that could have made the race even tighter is if Dan Haren was as much of a stud as he was in the first half. And has False Prophet has said above santanna has given up way too many HR's and has too many losses to win. I think it will be close but beckett will win it by a nose. Another tight race is the one for AL rookie of the year. Who wins Dice-K, Okajima, Pedroia, Willits, Travis Buck, Jerremy Guthrite just too name a few I think either pedroia or guthrite wins. Even though Okajima should. But, will not because nobody gives relief pitchers that are not closers any credit at all.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
818 days ago
Score 0+-
My vote would go to Matsuzaka. Pedroia has been the best offensive rookie and Okajima has a very strong case, like you said.
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Anonymous Fanatic #1
817 days ago
Score 0+-
I vote for Wang as the AL Cy Young.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
814 days ago
Score 0+-
wang under the radar last year snuck up on everybody and dispite a slow start this year he is the yankees only reliable pitcher all season
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #2
814 days ago
Score 0+-
thing that always hurts wang he is a groundball pitcher not alot of strikeouts but he make hitters hit into alot of groundballs 19 wins last season and he on pace to get 19 again this year everybody talks about how bad the yankees pitching is but he clearly the one bright spot there just nobody seems to notice this guy
Permalink | Reply
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