armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

2007 MLB HOF Ballot: First Base

13
Vote

by user Timothy Moreland(Bball3345)

In seven days, the Halls of Cooperstown may include additional plaques, as writers will vote on the 2007 Class. I will evaluate each eligible player in the days leading up to the results. There are four candidates at first base: Mark McGwire, Don Mattingly, Steve Garvey, and Wally Joyner.

2007 MLB HOF Ballot
2007 MLB HOF Ballot: First Base
2007 MLB HOF Ballot: Third Base
2007 MLB HOF Ballot: Shortstop
2007 MLB HOF Ballot: Outfield/DH
2007 MLB HOF Ballot: Pitchers (and Wrap-up)

This article will evaluate players similar to this previous article. Also, check out Handicapping the 2007 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot for another perspective of this year's ballot.

JAWS

First, each player will be evaluated by their JAWS score, which was created by Jay Jaffe at BaseballProspectus.com. The JAWS score uses the WARP(wins above replacement player) stat by adding the player's seven best seasons and their career WARP total, then dividing by two([PEAK + Career]/2).

Mark McGwire

Career: 109.3 Peak: 68.4 JAWS: 88.9

Big Mac comes out favorably by this measurement. Of the four, only McGwire breaks 100 in career value and his peak sticks out well above Garvey and Joyner. Outside of '98, McGwire had two other WARP seasons of 10+: 1990 and 1992. Had McGwire not missed considerable time in 1993, 1994, and 1997, his career total would likely have been closer to 130.

Don Mattingly

Career: 89.0 Peak: 64.8 JAWS: 76.9

For Mattingly, 1984-1986 and arguably 1987 were all Hall-of-Fame seasons. In 1988, at the age of 27, Mattingly began his early decline. By the age of 34, Mattingly was out of baseball. The Yankees' first baseman peaked high and early, but did not have great longevity.

Steve Garvey

Career: 84.0 Peak: 54.0 JAWS: 69.0

Garvey played until he was 38, but failed to have a truly clear-cut Hall-of-Fame season. His glove was well above average, but his bat was fairly weak for a first baseman. After Garvey hit his thirties, he was nothing more than an average player.

Wally Joyner

Career: 82.4 Peak: 52.9 JAWS: 67.7

Joyner definitely did not have any Hall-of-Fame caliber campaigns. His '87 and '91 seasons were solid, but not elite by any measure.

Hall of Fame Scores

Black Ink measures the number of times a player led the league in a category. Gray Ink measures a player's frequency in the top ten. HOF Standards provides a value to a player's career. HOF Monitor measures how likely it is that player will be voted in.

Further explanations can be found here: Baseball Reference explanation

Mark McGwire

Black Ink: 36

Gray Ink: 110

HOF Standards: 42.0

HOF Monitor: 169.5

While never winning an MVP, McGwire led the league in multiple categories, multiple times. Most famously, McGwire held the All-Time Home Run record for three seasons.

Don Mattingly

Black Ink: 23

Gray Ink: 111

HOF Standards: 34.1

HOF Monitor: 133.5

Mattingly won a batting title in 1984 and an MVP the next season. He also led the league in doubles, OPS, RBIs, SLG, and hits, among others, at least once.

Steve Garvey

Black Ink: 12

Gray Ink: 142

HOF Standards: 31.5

HOF Monitor: 130.5

Garvey has led the league in games played six times and hits twice. As well, he won the 1974 MVP.

Wally Joyner

Black Ink: 0

Gray Ink: 16

HOF Standards: 24.9

HOF Monitor: 27.5

Unless you want to count sacrifice flies, Joyner has never led the league in anything.

Verdict

McGwire: In: Without a failed steroid test, McGwire's career stats place him in the Hall of Fame.

Mattingly: Out: He faded too soon to have a serious argument for the Hall.

Garvey: Out: He was a very good player, but never dominated like a Hall of Famer should

Joyner: Out: See Garvey

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
ChristofMVP
915 days ago
Score 1+-
I will say that Big Mac is out because of the steroid issue. He may be allowed in a few yearsfrom now, but now is not the time. YOu cna't go with his stats and compare them historically because of the steroids.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Part of me agrees with you, but there just isn't enough proof to know how much steroids actually help a player. McGwire clearly worked out a lot, which that, coupled with his hitting skills, would have meant a lot of home runs with or without steroids. He did use andro, but that wasn't banned in baseball when he used it. As well, there was no testing for steroids, so there is no punishment that should keep him out. I see where you are coming from, but I just can't keep McGwire out of the Hall without actual evidence that he used steroids and without there being testing for steroids during his career. But we can agree to disagree.
Permalink
JoebookRed-Shirting
915 days ago
Score 1+-
Dukie got way mad at me when I did an article that was already done... I don't get mad at people. This is an excellent article, and it's still different from what I did: http://armch..._Fame_Ballot
Permalink
JoebookRed-Shirting
915 days ago
Score 0+-
I still think Garvey deserves to be in the HOF...
Permalink
Bball3345Draft Pick
915 days ago
Score 0+-
yeah, Joebook, I really liked your article (I have a link to it in my article at the beginning). I figured this was a different perspective on the issue and it was meant to complement your article. Thanks for not getting mad at me ;)
Permalink
The BeastAAA-er
915 days ago
Score 2+-
In America the law states, "You remain innocent until proven guilty." Mark McGwire has never failed a drug test. He was found using andro, a legal substance though. It is available over the counter. Also if you want more laws, than may I present Ex Post Facto. According to the law, a man can not be punished for a law that was not in force when he committed the crime. So even if McGwire did use steroids, than he isn't guilty because MLB did not have any laws against them in 1998. So in conclusion, McGwire deserves to be in the hall along with Barry Bonds unless I see a failed drug test or any evidance proving that McGwire or even Bonds were found guilty of using anabolic steroids.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
too bad the law doesn't vote for the baseball Hall of Fame... (Ty Cobb killed a man and he's in the hall)
Permalink
JoebookRed-Shirting
913 days ago
Score 0+-
Beast, this is the smartest post in a long time.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
913 days ago
Score 0+-
How about, 'Roids or no 'roids, they were Hall of Famers anyway???
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
915 days ago
Score 3+-
In fairness to Mattingly, his decline was injury related due to back problems. I find it interesting also to note Mattingly played 14 years to McGwire's 16, and had 527 more hits in two less seasons. So the only reason Big Mac is getting HOF consideration is 583 of his hits left the yard. Nice work Tim, looking forward to the rest.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
I hate the Yankees, but loved Mattingly. I wish he was a Hall of Famer. What a player.
Permalink
PeanMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 1+-
This user is a Donnie Baseball fan.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
But I was a bigger Wally Joyner fan... (SHOULD have been 1986 R.O.Y)
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
915 days ago
Score 1+-
Tim, unrelated comment to this piece but I know of no other way to let you know. I'm new to the group and I have been reading submissions by other users and I came across your article about Positional Depth and I agree with you..to an extent. Alot of the "newer" stats, like runs created and win shares are crap and way overrated, but you're analysis of one player being 35% better than his opponent, as you stated with Beltran is right on. Good stuff.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieMVP
915 days ago
Score 2+-
Win Shares and Runs Created way overrated crap? Urge to kill...rising...
Permalink
PeanMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 2+-
don't mess with the AGM statheads!!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
damn, I always wanted to say it, but I was never going to be so eloquent as to just call it crap... Baseball is played on plastic grass, not plastic calculators!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
915 days ago
Score 1+-
Aren't we all statheads? But we all dont always agree on everything either, and thats half the fun anyway.
Permalink | Reply
PeanMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 3+-
i know im just joking -- tim and Davis are good dudes
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 1+-
I agree. Without stats, life would be useless. 86% of all people know that!
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
I very well may be the owner of the world's LARGEST Wally Joyner Baseball card (as a California Angel ONLY) collection ever. I sold most ALL of my baseball cards in 1992 to buy a car, but kept all of my Joyners...
Permalink | Reply
PeanMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 2+-
actual quote from 10 year old Pean: I got my todd van poppel upper deck rookie card - I'm never going to have to work a day in my life
Permalink
PeanMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 2+-
bc i also knew i had brien taylors MINOR LEAGUE card
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Oh yeah... I agree. McGwire in, others out. Big Mac was too good at two different times. If not for his knee and back, HE would have played longer. Steroids, Schmeroids, he was better than his peers by that much. Hall of Famer.

Again, I wish I could vote in Donnie Baseball on principle. He WAS baseball in the mid 1980s, he'll be the last lefthanded third AND second baseman for a long time, and his 1984 Don Russ rookie card was the Holy Grail of baseball card collecting (other than the '52 Topps Mantle) when card collecting was at it's Apex.

Steve Garvey, hell no. Wally is a no vote (he admitted to doing steroids/not that that REALLY nattered) but he will always be in my personal HoF

Oddly enough, 3 of these guys were at least referenced in a Simpsons episode (MAttingly & McGwire) and another was briefly mentioned (Garvey on a baseball card)
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Wow, Pean!!! I got out right when you were getting in! I knew Van Poppel was a bad bad omen. I remember a similar feeling with Gregg Jeffries!
Permalink
PeanMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 1+-
i have a crapload of cards from 86-92..my favs are definitely the topps 87 wood border
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 1+-
I have about 60 Joyners from the '87 Topps set... and a plan for all my old 80's commons (I have manny BIG boxes FILLED)... My wife agreed to let me shellac old, common baseball cards on the walls in my son's room as wallpaper in a few years. He's gonna know more about Paul Assenmacher, Tito Landrum and Kirk McKaskill than he'd ever want to...
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 2+-
I was always a Fleer guy with a liking for Don Russ (and the fair share of the Canadian alternative, Leaf) Too bad that whole world is gone (THANKS, pogs/bankrupt card companies!!!)
Permalink
EnyboDiv-I Stud
915 days ago
Score 1+-
Screw the cards, I just want the gum.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Fleer stopped putting gum in the packs after 1983 (their gum was good, but it ruined the cards) and Don Russ never did. The Topps gum was among the crappiest gum in the history of confections. Why spend X cents(then)/dollars(now) on a pack of cards for the gum that was crap when you could've bought a PACK of decent gum for less??? Granted, the cards made your bike sound badass when you clothespinned 'em into your spokes...
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
915 days ago
Score 2+-
Hardball times did a nice analysis last month about McGwire's worthiness, using win shares as the point of contention. http://www.h...-worthiness/ Essentially, McGwire looks good when compared against other first basemen and hitters in all of MLB history, but not so much when compared only to his modern day colleagues. The comparison at the end of the article to Dick Allen (similar stats and negative vibe, not voted in) is also noteworthy.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
915 days ago
Score 0+-
Nice call. I read that article as well and agree that McGwire isn't a hands-down choice, but he just gets the nod in my book. Either in or out, I can see both sides.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
915 days ago
Score 0+-
mattingly was dominant during his era and should be in the hall....done deal.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Mattingly was dominant for a four year stretch. That is not enough to be a Hall-of-Famer.
Permalink
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score 0+-
Ask Ted Kluszewski
Permalink
MadmoochSoccer Kid
914 days ago
Score 2+-
Great write up by Bill Simmons aka the Sport Guy on ESPN today in regards to McGwire and the Hall of Fame. I think he should be in. He SHOULD not be the fall guy for a generation of known, but not proven steroid users. I look at it like he and bonds were the best of the steroid era. Mattingly making the hall of fame would have been like Notre Dame playing for a college football title this year, favortism because of the big named market they play in. He was not THAT good. What about Keith Hernandez?
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesMajor Leaguer
914 days ago
Score 2+-
Mattingly was that good, but got a late start and an early finish (back problems) dude had a sweet swing and a sweeter glove. He was better than some of the dudes already in the Hall but he's not a Hall of famer... a few more years, one more award, a ring perhaps and he's in! Sports Guy actually got one right (McGwire)!!!
Permalink
Bball3345Draft Pick
914 days ago
Score 2+-
I agree with you Manny. Mattingly was a Hall-of-Fame talent who was prevented from having a Hall-of-Fame career.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
914 days ago
Score 1+-
And that's why there is a Veteran's Committee, to honor guys that should have/could have been in if not for extenuating circumstances. This is the first year of the new Committee and will it be interesting to see who gets in if anyone, or at least the votes. My cousin got into a car wreck with Wally Joyner when he was playing Double-A. They're still buddies.
Permalink | Reply
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://armchairgm.wikia.com/2007_MLB_HOF_Ballot:_First_Base"

This page was last modified 14:23, 3 January 2007. Content is available under the GFDL.

Categories: Don Mattingly fans | Opinions | MLB Opinions | Mark McGwire Opinions | Don Mattingly Opinions | Wally Joyner Opinions | Steve Garvey Opinions | January 2, 2007 | Opinions by User Bball3345

Contribute

ArmchairGM's pages can be edited.
Is this page incomplete? Is there anything wrong?
Change it!

Edit this page Discuss this page Page history

Recent contributors to this page

The following people recently contributed to this article.

Embed this on your site

Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise